Jeremiah (00:01.166)
Okay, think we're rolling. Chris, thank you so much for coming on Metrics and Chill. We have, like I said to you off mic, we met before as I attended one of the groups that Pete hosts. I know you're like a regular part of that or had been a regular part of that. But yeah, looking forward to having you on the show. For listeners, we're gonna be covering the topic of getting good marketing attribution data on opportunities in the sales pipeline. Chris is an expert at this. This is part of what you do as...

working with rev ops specialists at Clear Pivot, right? So maybe for people who don't know you, maybe give like 30 seconds sort of on your background and a little pitch for a clear pivot to sort of set the stage for your expertise here.

Chris Strom (00:43.583)
Yeah, definitely. yeah. So I'm the founder of clear pivot. actually started it, over 15 years ago, back in 2009. originally it was, it was growing out of just freelance work I was doing originally. And then, you know, over a couple of years, we, you know, kind of built up a client list a little bit, hired some other people. And, now we're about a team of eight or so.

And, I've had, some clients we've been working with for years and years. think one client we've worked with for 10 years at this point, you know, and then a lot of, you know, newer clients we just started working with this year and last year as well. but yeah, so we're, revenue operations, marketing operations, consulting company. And, so we're doing a lot of, a lot of CRM.

Jeremiah (01:21.976)
Wow.

Chris Strom (01:38.913)
build outs operations, data management, lot of attribution projects, dashboarding and other analytics projects, sales pipeline management, sometimes integrations between systems, things like that. And, our primary, platform expertise is HubSpot. That's the platform we're best at. And then with a lot of our clients, they're running a HubSpot Salesforce setup together. So we do.

a fair amount of that as well.

Jeremiah (02:10.348)
Nice, love it. Yeah, excited to dig into this topic. This is near and dear to our heart. Attribution is something as we build out more marketing programs at DataBox, this is kind of, I like this is a constant thing marketing teams are thinking about. So excited to learn from some of your expertise here. To set the stage, can you maybe talk a little bit about, I know you alluded to like, you used to use web analytics.

primarily for attribution. And that was sort of the state of the world, I think for a lot of companies, what did that look like? And then what sort of, why was that not good enough? Like what, what advances, why did there need to be advances on top of that? And why do you start incorporating other ways to look at attribution?

Chris Strom (02:58.176)
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Um, like looking back in retrospect, it was really like the whole 2010 decade was, you know, the marketing real world really got almost entirely, uh, focused on basically web analytics sources. And, in retrospect, I think it was probably Google analytics that ended up setting the conversation for everyone.

basically got everyone in the marketing world thinking that, you know, the only things that matter in your marketing sourcing are organic search, direct traffic, referral traffic, email traffic. You know, they kind of, those kind of predefined Google analytics, source channels and, yeah, for pretty much, you know, a whole decade that's, that became kind of the default way.

Jeremiah (03:46.85)
Yeah.

Chris Strom (03:54.069)
of people measuring it. And that was how we measured it too, primarily for a long time. you know, there's the big limitations of that is that there you, it just doesn't give all the information you need. It's so common. You're pretty commonly across, even between like companies and even between industries. A lot of times, you know,

It'll break down to 40 % direct traffic, 30 % organic search, and then the remaining 30 % kind of divided between a couple other small things from there. that's between company sizes, between industries that is really just the most common pattern over and over. And direct traffic itself really just means

They don't know where it came from. There's no tracking info available. And for a long time, people said, well, that's just people typing in your URL directly into their web browser. But it's like, you know, are you really saying that there's like 8,000 people every month typing in www.companyname.com into your web browser? Most likely, probably not. It's just that the...

Jeremiah (05:10.358)
You

Chris Strom (05:20.83)
The web analytics tool isn't, they just couldn't pick it up for one technical reason or another. And so kind of across the board, you're looking at like, typically like 40 % of your traffic is just a black box. You don't even know where it came from. And then for the, you know, 30 % or so that shows up as organic search, that's often very misleading too. Cause people say, wow, our word.

Jeremiah (05:36.056)
Hmm.

Chris Strom (05:50.027)
We're doing good SEO. We got to do more keyword research and stuff like that. but then a lot of times the organic traffic, you know, even if a lot of direct traffic is not people typing in your URL into their browser bar, a lot of your organic traffic is typically people searching for your company name in Google. So it's not actually, you know, your, you know, your SEO keywords that are bringing them in. They're just Google searching your name.

And, uh, you know, they're Google searching their name because. You know, their, their coworker told you about them or their friend told you about, told them about you and, someone, uh, someone like slacked them, you know, uh, some piece of content that you had made and they looked at that. And then they Google searched your name. Um, you know, or with some clients who get a lot, who are like locally focused, um,

We'll get people who, you know, to just live nearby or they were driving by or they saw a sign for the company. And then they went and Google search that. And so, there's all these other reasons that people are finding your company that are not SEO related, but if you just say, well, they came from organic search. They came from SEO. you're, you're totally wrong.

Jeremiah (07:19.662)
And of course, all the ramifications of all of this is that teams are not able to invest in the channels that might be driving those results more to scale them more. And they might over invest or misinvest in other channels that are misleading that they think are driving these results. So this is a huge thing that obviously companies want. It's not just like...

how are my LinkedIn ads performing and tracking the ROI of like a specific channel? It's also like what's working overall and where do we want to invest here? And I'm curious, like, go ahead, go ahead.

Chris Strom (07:54.846)
Yeah.

yeah, and speaking of that, things like, you know, direct response ads like LinkedIn ads and Google ads, those actually work pretty well with web analytics. Those are some of those are some of the most reliable measure, reliably measured things in web analytics. So that creates a bias towards that. well, let's just, you know, we can track this easier. So let's just put more money into our Google app.

or let's just put more money into our LinkedIn ads.

Jeremiah (08:30.402)
I was gonna ask you before we sort of move into how you're handling it now and how you all have adapted to handle this and what you recommend for attribution. Why do you think it is, you know, for me, looking at sort of back at that time period, like, why do you think it was that web analytics was so popular? Like, it's hard to believe that it ever was seen as like a thoroughly effective way to measure.

campaigns, but then it makes me wonder like, do you think marketing was just more SEO and email back then? And so that kind of covered like the 80 % of what most B2B companies did and it was good enough or was, is web analytics that it offered the promise? Was there less talk about this at the time and, it's shortcomings because it sort of offered the promise of like, you just set this up and it tells you what you need to know. And it's all measurable all out of the box.

it wasn't more a result that B2B companies weren't really investing in paid socialists. Like where they, you know what I mean? Like they just weren't diversified as much as they are now in marketing. Like they were showing up in less places. So they, what they, where they were, they thought was measurable. Like why do you think there wasn't more a prompt to look outside the box of web analytics back in that time?

Chris Strom (09:49.279)
Hmm. Yeah. and, to be honest, I'm a little limited by my own experience. like I mentioned, I started into this in 2009 and that was, by that time, especially like for small and medium sized companies, Google analytics had already become like the dominant paradigm. And so I kind of walked in and that's what everyone was doing. And so I,

In my experience, I don't know what the before time was like. but, I think part of the reason was it, you know, it was free. so they really say it was free, fairly easy to use. So everyone went out and installed it. you know, all the, was like the, the, peak of, you know, SEO agencies. And so they were all, they all started using Google analytics to make their SEO reports and things like that.

so Google analytics really kind of became the default paradigm. then when other tools came along, like when HubSpot later on built their web analytics tools, their web analytics basically followed the same conventions, same channel conventions as Google analytics. And so that, that, you know, reinforced it further from there.

Jeremiah (11:14.19)
The move from web analytics as like sort of like two dimensional now to this more three dimensional blended version you're using, what does that include? Like you mentioned, I think that that's web and now you're doing self-reported at the contact source level. What does that look like sort of practically for listeners? Like this means that you're looking at web but then you're also looking at like where the user states that they're

they first heard about you or the most impactful way that drove them to you and then you're blending these together in some way.

Chris Strom (11:49.825)
Yeah, definitely. So yeah, what we started doing was, yeah, we first learned about self-reported attribution from Chris Walker, you know, probably like a lot of people out there. But it was, was, you know, after several years of me kind of having the same kind of

Frustrating client calls. Oh, yeah, and you know, here's another month with 40 % direct traffic 40 % web analytics and or the organic search and not much else to say there So we had been seeing the limitations already And then so we decided to start trying it as well and So we started adding just the the adding the how did you hear about his field to web forms?

One thing that I think is really important to do is to make it an open text field and a lot of companies will have like their own predefined select list already. But I don't, I'm really not a fan of using that because that's biasing the results by making them choose from your own preselected options.

Jeremiah (12:54.978)
Yeah.

Chris Strom (13:08.98)
and a lot of times that those preselected lists aren't even, they don't really reflect the options on there. Don't even reflect how people are actually finding you. so that's why we, we like to use, just keep it a pure open text field. you know, in general, when in your CRM, you oftentimes want to avoid open text fields for a lot of analytics data, but.

Jeremiah (13:26.446)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Strom (13:38.049)
Yeah, we want to start with having them just tell us, be open to whatever they tell us in a text field. then, you know, in the next step, we internally can then kind of filter it down into a more structured data internally. But we just want to ask them how they heard about us at first. And so then we started rolling that out on a couple of client accounts. And we definitely discovered

You know a lot of lead sources that the web analytics were not capturing Especially the biggest ones are Word of mouth referrals even like local local things yes, a lot of people start filling out the the web analytics would say, you know organic search or direct traffic oftentimes organic search, but then

When they would say, did they hear about us? They would say, my friend told me about you. or, you know, my sister told me about you or for a couple of our medical clients, would be my doctor told me about you. my doctor referred me to you. or even I live nearby. like one of our clients is a senior living center. a huge amount of their people.

are people saying, I live nearby. live nearby. you know, I've lived in this town my whole life, things like that. And so enormous. it was like, you know, double digit percentages of the total leads coming in where people are saying this.

Jeremiah (15:13.785)
Yeah this-

Jeremiah (15:23.33)
Wow. Yeah, I mean, this tracks very much with our experience. We do a similar thing so far, at least where we'll ask the open text field and then, you know, we've got this set of check boxes on HubSpot on the backend that we will like read the response. We've done automations to some degree to sort of speed it up. Like if a lot of them say a certain thing that we know we always match to this one, we'll automate that. like,

I would imagine ours look a lot the same way where like, I know I've seen feedback that's like, follow Pete on LinkedIn and we read a Pete, you know, you know, our, our CEO Pete could put it up for listeners. Like, we read a post that Pete did, and then like, you know, that they're coming either to data box.com or typing data box in the, in the Google search thing and clicking. it would show up in web analytics as organic, but like Pete's LinkedIn posts would be like the actual way that they, know, maybe not the first time they heard.

Chris Strom (16:02.196)
Mmm, yeah.

Chris Strom (16:20.18)
Yeah.

Jeremiah (16:20.866)
But yeah.

Chris Strom (16:22.846)
Yeah, for a company like Databox, that's a huge lead source for you all, I know. I know Peter said that. So yeah, so we started taking that just raw information that they were putting in. And so then what we would do is then we would make a new lead source property. And we would define our, on that new lead source property,

Jeremiah (16:30.86)
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Chris Strom (16:52.116)
that would be a structured select list of options from there. And we just look at that internally and we build out the options based on both the web analytics and what we're seeing in what people are telling us. So like the lead source options will break down to like, it'll be like a word of mouth, search engine, know, existing customer.

That's another big one. you know, someone comes to your site. yeah. I came in three years ago and I'm coming back now. So existing customers is, is a big one. I'll click through some of our dashboards here. yeah. Foot traffic. for some companies foot traffic is a big one. You know, TV advertising. Yeah. I saw it. Yeah. I saw your ad on TV and so I Google searched your name.

Jeremiah (17:22.947)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Strom (17:51.073)
Sometimes even employee connections, agency or directory referrals. So these are examples of different categories from some of our real life clients. So we'll build out this structured list of options for lead source. And then from there to populate it, we typically first look at the self-reported attribution as the first thing to look at.

Jeremiah (17:54.838)
Okay.

Chris Strom (18:21.696)
And then from there, if the self-reported attribution is not helpful or blank or whatever, then we can look at the web analytics as a backup. and we, we generally do this. I mean, we work in HubSpot, so we generally build all of this in HubSpot. And so we'll set up a HubSpot workflow to help us automate it as much as possible. We can't automate every edge case we get for.

whatever random thing people might type in. But we can automate, you know, maybe 70 % of it, you know, we'll put in things like if, if how did you hear about us contains coworker, colleague, friend, brother, you know, mother, things like that. We can say, you know, if that field contains these words, set lead source to word of mouth.

Jeremiah (19:19.278)
Hmm.

Chris Strom (19:21.888)
You know, for one of our local clients where they live nearby, if they say something like nearby or I drove by, you know, set some of those as keywords to mark them as foot traffic or lives nearby. One of our medical clients we have, if how did you hear about us contains doctor market as a medical referral. If it contains, you know, friend.

Jeremiah (19:46.338)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Strom (19:50.699)
friend, brother, whatever, mother, mark it as a personal referral. And then from there, that'll get, you know, 60, 70 % of them. And then for the ones where we can't just automate it, sometimes we can go back in and we can just read what they wrote themselves. Maybe it's a misspelling or something. And then we can choose an option from there. And then sometimes if it's, if it's just blank,

or unusable for some reason, then we can use the web analytics as a fallback.

Jeremiah (20:26.616)
Okay, okay. Do you compare the two side by side? Like do you see that like certain types, has this helped you see that for example, yeah, most word of mouth referrals or friend referrals end up as like organic on web analytics? Like have you been able to see a correlation in that?

Chris Strom (20:49.374)
Yeah, yeah, word of mouth and referrals is almost always in the web analytics. It'll show up as either organic search or direct traffic. If you're running like Google ads for your own name, you'll probably, you'll probably get word of mouth people coming in through the Google ads. Most of our clients don't do that. I don't really like doing that unless you have to. So.

Jeremiah (21:15.886)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Strom (21:18.674)
If you're not running Google ads for your own name, the word of mouth people are probably not going to come in through that. So then we can, we typically, if they come in through a Google ad or a LinkedIn ad or a Facebook ad, we'll log the source for those as literally the Google ad or Facebook ad or something.

Jeremiah (21:38.594)
Okay.

Chris Strom (21:39.946)
So yeah, word of mouth or referrals or trade shows, TV, direct mail, in the web analytics, those sources almost always show up as organic search or direct traffic.

Jeremiah (21:53.356)
Yeah, makes sense. And so far, all of this is at the contact level. You said like, you're not yet in the deal phase. You're not yet passing this through to the deal phase or are you at this stage?

Chris Strom (22:08.812)
not quite yet. This is all setting the, choosing our origination source for the contacts themselves. So, yeah. So then the next step from there is then. You know, that, you know, the goal of bringing in people is to, you know, create a deal for them and build your sales pipeline from there. And so then the deals, you know, on HubSpot or the opportunities in Salesforce.

Jeremiah (22:17.015)
Okay.

Chris Strom (22:36.968)
They're a separate object from the contacts and sometimes they'll have multiple contacts associated with them. And then in the, in the deals themselves, oftentimes there could be other like sales specific sources in addition to the marketing sources. So usually, so then we'll typically make a separate deal source property.

on the deal record itself. And it'll oftentimes have many of the same options as the contact source, but there will oftentimes be additional options as well. Like we're working with one company right now where, you know, they have a, you know, medium sized sales team and the sales team is doing their own prospecting, calling through their own Rolodex of connections.

Jeremiah (23:14.498)
Okay.

Chris Strom (23:30.677)
So salespeople are sourcing some leads themselves. A couple of our B2B clients, have distribution partners or value added reseller partners. And those partners will bring in deals as well. So those are often more sales specific lead sources. And so on the deal record, we'll build out a deal source list that includes

some of those sales, more sales focused ones like sales prospecting as one, or just salesperson generated one way or another, partner generated channel partner or reseller partner generated as options. then oftentimes some of the marketing options in addition to that.

and so then, so then, yeah, then you look at, you'll need for that, you'll oftentimes need the salesperson's cooperation or collaboration as well. So then you basically populate your deal source based on, well, this is where you really have to work with the sales team because especially if there's multiple contacts associated with them, then you have to decide what the.

What's your rules of engagement are going to be like, do we want to do this on the first contact associated with the deal? That's what we typically do. Uh, the source of the first contact associated with the deal will copy over to the deal itself. Um, unless the contact is already in the system. Um, you know, or if it's like a repeat contact, and then the salesperson will say, Oh no, you know,

Jeremiah (25:13.368)
Hmm.

Chris Strom (25:19.934)
You know, George and I, we did, you know, five deals together last year, and then he came back to me and we did another deal. so we would mark that as, you know, existing customer or something like that.

Jeremiah (25:34.522)
So say there's like three contacts associated with a deal. Your rule is we look at the first contact generated in the CRM. We look at the self-reported attribution source and we pass that over and trust that as the attribution source for the deal or do I have that wrong a little?

Chris Strom (25:54.561)
that's the, that's usually the default. you know, there's always edge cases when you talk to the salespeople and they say, well that, that was actually. Yeah. We, we talked, you know, I called them three months ago or something, and then they came in later. So there's some edge cases like that, but, the default usually is. Yeah. Let's take the first contact associated with the deal. We'll look at their.

Jeremiah (25:57.72)
Okay.

Chris Strom (26:24.106)
We'll look at the blended lead source we chose for that contact, then we'll associate, we'll mark the deal source accordingly.

Jeremiah (26:34.094)
Have you?

Chris Strom (26:35.232)
So that'll get like, and then, you know, oftentimes the salespeople will add additional people. Like they'll have their first conversation with the person. That person will say, Oh yeah, let me bring in my colleague. You know, two of my colleagues over here. So the salespeople will add some additional contacts. Um, but they weren't the first contact, so they weren't the origination source.

Jeremiah (26:48.974)
Mmm.

Jeremiah (26:57.442)
Got it, okay. Have you played it all with, like something I'm surprised I don't see more people talking about with this is incorporating like the field being once, self-reported attribution field being one thing, but then like on the sales call, especially with the advent of AI and things like Avoma and Gong, I'm surprised I don't see more people talking about just having sales folks ask.

how did you hear about us, setting that as like a tracker question that you like, the call recording software like automatically records the answer to and puts as like just a secondary sort of self-reported attribution where they might put LinkedIn on the form, but then on the sales call, they might explain, I saw one of your LinkedIn ads, just being able to get a little bit more detail or nuance or.

Chris Strom (27:40.778)
Hmm.

Jeremiah (27:52.982)
And then like using that as a third point. And I'm curious if like, there's a reason why I haven't seen more of that. Like maybe it's more complicated than it's worth, or you don't get that many new insights, but I'm curious your take on that.

Chris Strom (28:05.024)
Um, you know, there's certainly no, no, no harm in doing it outside of just adding an additional step to the process.

Jeremiah (28:15.436)
Yeah.

Chris Strom (28:18.197)
that's probably, you know, that could be a very, that could be valid to check. Yeah. Maybe we could try it ourselves.

The main, probably the main reason people aren't really doing it is just like, it's just one more thing to do. But it could be, it could very well be worth trying as an additional double check stat.

Jeremiah (28:36.15)
Yeah, yeah, it's making sure.

Jeremiah (28:42.166)
Yeah, I know too, sometimes people seem, and I mean, we're speaking to marketers and sales folks a lot, right? So, and they're kind of, some of them are like, kind of know what's going on and don't put good information in the field or whatever. So I feel like the answer to a salesperson question might be a little bit more informative, but yeah, would be interesting, like, you know, to read a LinkedIn posts or a blog post from Clear Pivot if you end up doing that.

Chris Strom (29:08.126)
Yeah. One potential downside is, you know, say, you know, say someone requests a demo or fills out a contact form or something, and then they book a time and the demo time is like two weeks later or something. and then the sales, might not remember two weeks later as clearly how they found you. by the time they actually talked to the salesperson.

Jeremiah (29:32.851)
Mmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Chris Strom (29:36.756)
So that could be an option.

Jeremiah (29:39.16)
That makes sense. This has been super helpful to hear how you've walked through the process. And for listeners, I feel like it's a great blueprint to follow. I'm curious, there been any surprising insights customers have uncovered through this with you that has changed maybe marketing strategy or whether they've invested budget or something they thought was working well that it turns out is not?

Chris Strom (30:08.224)
Yeah, the most common thing we see is word of mouth going from like being completely not on their radar to realizing, you know, oh, 25 % of our business is word of mouth. That's the most common thing we see for just how much word of mouth is is a big, such a big contributor to their, their

Jeremiah (30:27.608)
Okay.

Chris Strom (30:38.004)
deal pipeline. one surprising thing was for, for, for one of our clients, seeing just how many people were coming from foot traffic, or people who just lived in the area. that was, I'm looking at it now. That's like,

15 to 20 % of their total volume of people just saying, oh, I live nearby. So that was a surprising one to see.

Jeremiah (31:02.934)
wow.

Jeremiah (31:11.8)
Yeah, yeah, I would imagine these kinds of insights are super useful to people that maybe, you know, in 2025 are like over indexing on SEO or something or thinking this is like the main source driver for them or they're running Google ads. They don't realize the ways that these Google ads, you know, showing up for their own name or like complicating all this reporting, right? And actually it's like this whole other slew of thing that's driving the results, but the Google ad is throwing everything off. So I feel like that would be.

I feel like for a lot of companies that are doing it, they're going to uncover a lot of new insights the first time they go through this.

Chris Strom (31:48.629)
Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of companies, they put too much focus on SEO. Especially because we haven't even gotten into like lead quality. Like The quality of the leads you get from word of mouth and your organic branding and your organic exposure, know, like Pete's LinkedIn content, the quality of contacts you're getting are

On average, it's going to be significantly better leads than the ones that you get from people Google searching for the keywords you're trying to optimize for.

Jeremiah (32:25.718)
Yeah. Yeah. Is that something you'll help clients track? Like, will you go down to like win rates or close rates based on the source? And do you see that being true? Like the SEO, the truly like organic SEO searches or paid ad searches don't do as well as like the more, you know, social brand building type type things where they followed you for a while.

Chris Strom (32:52.128)
We'll track pipeline totals, this amount of closed deals from this source, that amount of closed deals from that source, this amount of revenue from this source and that source. Sometimes we get into close rates. With one client in particular, we've done a lot of looking at close rates because they were...

Jeremiah (32:58.242)
Okay.

Chris Strom (33:21.888)
They got like 60, 70 % of their leads were coming from these directory sites. And so they always thought, oh, wow, you know, we like live or die based on these directory sites. And then we did some close rate reports for them and found the close rate was abysmal. The close rate was like one and a half percent or something like that.

Jeremiah (33:29.112)
Hmm.

Jeremiah (33:47.725)
Wow.

Chris Strom (33:48.939)
So they're getting like, a thousand leads a year from these directory sites and they would close one and a half percent of them versus the other lead sources they would close like 20%. Yeah, like 10 fold difference.

Jeremiah (34:03.0)
Wow.

That's amazing. And I know we're not gonna like, it's not the purpose of the interview to touch on this, but I am curious to dig sort of more into your thoughts on it. Single source versus multi-touch attribution. You know, obviously with this, there's a way to put together some journey of like, like I said, like you could have sales folks ask and web analytics could pick it up. And I know there's a lot of tools in our space that are looking at multi-touch attribution.

Which do you like recommend clients go with and sort of why? Like is there a lot of utility to multi-touch attribution? Just curious of your take on.

Chris Strom (34:46.88)
Yeah, there could be some utility but it's definitely not the magic bullet that sometimes people are hoping it'll be. One of the biggest things I've seen is if multi-touch attribution is a great way to incorporating your email.

Yeah. Seeing if your email might be contributing to your pipeline at all. cause I think email marketing is, is super powerful, but that doesn't show up in, your, your single source attribution. Definitely not original source because you can't email them before they've even converted. so, so just looking at original source attribution by itself does underplay, the value of your email marketing with them.

Jeremiah (35:33.634)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Strom (35:44.097)
over time after that. Um, it also depends on how long your sales cycle is. If you have a, you know, if your sales cycle is like three months or less, it's probably not that valuable to do multi-touch attribution. Cause there's just not going to be a lot of marketing activities, um, in that timeframe. You know, if your sales cycle is like 18 months, like some of our clients are, you know, 12 months, 18 months.

that's, multi-touch is going to be more useful there, where there's more time for marketing activities to be involved. But yeah, it's, you know, you have to kind of remember what it's, what it's actually showing is it's basically saying here's, you know, for, for these 10 deals last month, here are the context with the deals.

Jeremiah (36:18.51)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Strom (36:44.714)
here's the different tagged campaigns they interacted with over the last 12 months or something. You could say, well, know, of all of our closed one deals, 10 of them opened emails, five of them went to this webinar. And then you're doing the...

when you're doing the multi-touch, then you start assigning percentage values based on that. You know, oh, 20 % email contribution or, you know, 10%, 15 % webinar contribution. So it's, but the thing it doesn't show is it doesn't show causation. So it's great to see like correlated stuff. Oh, there's people on this deal opened a bunch of our emails or the people on this deal.

Jeremiah (37:16.386)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Strom (37:40.597)
you know, attended this webinar or attended this trade show or they visited these pages on the site. but it, you know, you'll never know the answer to, well, what if we didn't send that email? Would we have lost the deal? What if we didn't have that page? Would we have lost the deal? Yeah. It can never answer. What if, what if, what if, fortunately, most things in life, you can never answer. What if, what if,

Jeremiah (37:57.1)
Hmm.

Right.

Jeremiah (38:04.6)
Yeah.

Jeremiah (38:08.846)
Yeah, very true.

Chris Strom (38:10.472)
Yeah.

Chris Strom (38:14.078)
So, see, as long as you just remember that and keep that in mind at the outset, it can be an additional supplemental.

Jeremiah (38:22.732)
Yeah, yeah, love that take. Well, this has been super helpful. know providing this to listeners is gonna be amazing. And I guess my final question would be, is there any, for people that are trying to do this the first time, you you all have been doing this for years, your HubSpot and your RevOps Pros, like what...

for people that are trying to do it maybe in-house for the first time and going through the exercise, is there anything to watch out for, any guidance, any advice that you would give them?

Chris Strom (38:59.2)
things to watch out for.

I mean, for the web analytics, make sure it's set up correctly and make sure the tracking codes on all your pages, make sure you're, you know, if you have multiple sub domains, make sure they're not showing up as referral traffic between each other. Make sure those are excluded from referral traffic. For, you know, the self-reported, can, you can get started and just, just add in that field onto it and then just start.

looking in your contact database, run a list of contacts with a couple columns for the web analytics traffic and a column for what they're telling you for the self-reported attribution. Just start looking through it and qualitatively and start seeing the patterns from there. And then from there you can start deciding what you're kind of more structured.

lead source list is going to be from there.

Jeremiah (40:08.364)
Yeah.

Chris Strom (40:09.608)
And then, and then of course, just remember for any new change, you're, you're not going to have the historical data. So you just have to accept that. it's really difficult to like backfill historical data. So you just have to know that this is a new way of measuring it, that you're starting, you know, as of the day you're starting.

Jeremiah (40:33.868)
Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Chris, thanks so much for coming on, for sharing your blueprint, for doing this, how you all do it, some of the insights. If people want to work with you, if listeners, readers want to work with you, who's a good fit for you, where should they find you, where should they follow you? Give them all that stuff.

Chris Strom (40:56.32)
Hmm. Yeah. Um, yeah, the best, uh, we work best with companies, kind of medium sized companies, which we define as companies of 100 to 1000 employees in total, um, do a lot of different types of, worked with a lot of software companies, uh, cyber security companies, um, couple of different types of professional services companies are some of the most common ones we work with.

Jeremiah (41:24.941)
Okay.

Chris Strom (41:26.572)
And, we're usually two thirds of the time we're working with the marketing people. One third of the time we're working with a sales leader and sometimes people who, you know, the ops people are rev ops people or the marketing person designated to also be the rev ops person kind of straddling the line. And, the, can find us, probably the best ways through our website, clear pivot.com clear pivot.com.

Jeremiah (41:45.879)
Okay.

Chris Strom (41:56.383)
You can find us through there. Contact us. I try to be pretty active on LinkedIn as well. So you can look me up on LinkedIn. my name is Chris strum S T R O So that's a great way to, and, yeah, we have a newsletter and a podcast ourselves. the rev ops hero is what it's called the rev ops hero podcast and the rev ops hero newsletter. So if, you.

You know, you're not, not a good time to work with this yet. can still subscribe to one of those and follow along with what we're putting it out.

Jeremiah (42:31.298)
Love it. Thank you so much for coming on, Chris.

Chris Strom (42:35.135)
Yeah, thanks for having me, Jeremiah.